မညာေနပါနဲ ့ ေတာ့ ေအာင္သိန္းလင္း။ မကာကြယ္ေနပါနဲ ့ ေဌးဦး။

ေအာင္သိန္းလင္းက ေျပာလို ့ ဘာသာျပန္တာ လြဲေနလို ့တဲ့၊ ေဌးဦးကလည္း ေအာင္သိန္းလင္းဘက္ကေန ေျဗာင္ကာကြယ္ေပးေနတယ္။ ဒီအတြက္ မူရင္းေျပာဆိုခ်က္ေတြကို တရုတ္ဘာသာနဲ ့ေရာ အဂၤလိပ္ဘာသာနဲ ့ေရာ ေဖၚျပလိုက္ရပါတယ္။ ေအာင္သိန္းလင္းေရ ေသဖို ့သာ ျပင္ေတာ့။

တရုတ္ဘာသာနဲ ့ ေဖၚျပထားတဲ့ အင္တာဗ်ဴးရယ္၊ အဂၤလိပ္လို ဘာသာျပန္ထားတာရယ္၊ အင္တာဗ်ဴးစဥ္က ဓါတ္ပုံရယ္ ေဖၚျပလိုက္ရပါတယ္။ တရုတ္ဘာသာနဲ ့ ေဖၚျပထားတဲ့ေနာက္မွာ အဂၤလိပ္ဘာသာနဲ ့ ရွိပါတယ္။ ဖတ္သာၾကည့္ၾကပါ။ ျမန္မာျပည္သူလူထုကို ဘာသာျပန္တာ မွားတယ္လို ့ဘဲ ေအာင္သိန္းလင္းက ေျပာရေသးတယ္။

ေအာင္သိန္းလင္း အရွင္ဘဲျဖစ္ျဖစ္ အေသဘဲျဖစ္ျဖစ္ ထြက္ပါေတာ့။

“有人想在缅甸建立傀儡政权”
——访缅甸“改革及现代化监督委员会”主席昂丁林

来源：南方周末

作者： 南方周末记者 张哲 叶伟民 实习生 周淇隽 发自：缅甸仰

光 最后更新：2012-07-06 12:14:38

编者按：缅甸各方政治力量正在努力团结与和解，但另一方面，各种政治力量的博弈、暗自涌动的对抗却从未消失。

对于当下的缅甸，执政党“联邦巩固与发展党”（USDP，以下简称“巩发党”）无疑是最重要的领导力量。巩发党能否走出历史？在“新”国会中，巩发党与昂山素季领导的反对党将如何相处？带着这些问题，南方周末记者采访了巩发党中央执行委员、缅甸国会“改革及现代化监督委员会”主席、仰光市前市长昂丁林（Aung Thein Linn）。

昂丁林出身军队，曾于2003年至2011年任仰光市市长。眼下，他已脱下军装，辞去市长职务，转任国会议员。他同时兼任巩发党仰光地区的党委主席，领导着超过50万名党员。

他的观点不代表缅甸政府的全部官方意见。但在缅甸尚不明朗的政局中，仍有相当部分权力掌控在昂丁林这样的强硬派手中。
“我不相信潘基文， 也不相信联合国”

南方周末：从2011年开始，吴登盛总统在缅甸大幅推行经济、社会和政治等多方面改革。你能先整体评价一下这场改革吗？

昂丁林：我们要建立民主国家，不会开倒车。我们要为下一代建立一个和平、发达、民主的国家。这个国家的每个人都热爱民主。我们很好地执行了七步民主路线图。

南方周末：到目前为止，你觉得改革成功吗？
昂丁林：成功。

南方周末：那改革面临的主要困难是什么？

昂丁林：一个很大的挑战，是从1990年代开始的经济制裁。它影响了所有人，不仅仅是政府，而是每一个人。制裁决议是西方国家对我们内政的干涉。他们想干涉我们，想在缅甸建立傀儡政府，这是我们不想要的。

南方周末：近期，经济制裁已在松动，美国和欧盟都表示出一些友好的姿态……

昂丁林：我们不会相信。我们国内还有一伙人想夺取政权，他们的目标就是在缅甸建立傀儡政权。

南方周末：关于国际社会和制裁，最近联合国秘书长潘基文访问缅甸，和吴登盛总统会面，一切都在显示缅甸和国际社会的关系在缓和，不是吗？

昂丁林：想一下，是谁在控制联合国？谁在控制潘基文？联合国总部设在纽约，想想就知道了。

南方周末：可我看起来吴登盛总统挺喜欢潘基文。

昂丁林：可能吧，反正我不喜欢。我不相信潘基文，也不相信联合国。他们都一样，只想干涉别国内政。

南方周末：美国国务卿希拉里不久前访问缅甸，你怎么看待这件事？

昂丁林：这是我们的失败。她不是来见我们的，不是为了我们的人民，不是为了缅甸，只是为了“那个女人”，那一个人，你知道的。正是因为“那个女人”，缅甸才要面对制裁。
“修改宪法的努力不会成功”

南方周末：不久前的议会补选中，昂山素季所领导的NLD（全国民主联盟的英文缩写）获得大胜。如今，NLD已经在国会有43名议员，成为第一大反对党。作为执政党的中央委员和国会议员，你打算如何与他们合作？

（昂丁林一面笑着一面用两只拳头做出不断碰撞的动作，嘴里说，“是啊，合作！合作！”过后，他又换上了严肃的表情。）

昂丁林：我们的政策一切都是为了国家，我们没有什么私心，任何为国家、为人民服务的政党我们都愿意与他们合作。大选之后，他们获得了43席，只占国会议席的6%，但我们占了76%，我们是绝对多数。

南方周末：你们掌握着权力……

昂丁林：至少现在是。我们奉行的是一切为了国家的原则，也就

是巩发党的三大原则：维护祖国统一，维护民族团结，维护缅甸主权完整。

南方周末：我们在仰光看到NLD很多分部的开张、很多激动的民众，他们热烈支持昂山素季和NLD。对于这种情况，你怎么评价？

昂丁林：那些人疯了。好吧，她很受欢迎，但受欢迎是因为她是昂山将军的女儿。昂山将军是我们的民族英雄。

南方周末：你讲过改革是为了实现缅甸的民主。你有没有想过，有一天你们可能会失去执政权，沦为在野党？

昂丁林：在大选中，多数党胜出组建政府，但依然需要依照宪 执政。宪法是全体国民通过的，（执政）政党和政府可以变，但宪法不能因为哪些人不同意就改了。


南方周末：但我知道，全国民主联盟正在试图修宪。

昂丁林：是的，他们不喜欢宪法。

南方周末：因为它不给予外国人配偶被选举权，这样昂山素季的政治前途就是一个问题，对吧？

昂丁林：是的，总统和副总统的资格是这样规定的。

南方周末：你觉得他们试图修宪的努力能成功吗？

昂丁林：NLD的领袖（指昂山素季）是外国人的配偶，所以他们才想修宪。但保全我们的民族性是我们的责任，我们要把这种责任代代传承下去。宪法规定，外籍人员配偶不得担任国家领导。

南方周末：你是说他们修宪不会成功。

昂丁林：没戏，没人喜欢他们那套。缅甸曾经是英国的殖民地，被统治了一百多年，不会有人想再回到殖民地。这是主要原因，第二个原因，我们决不允许任何外国军事设施在缅甸存在。这是主权的要求。
“我们学到很多经验教训”

南方周末：作为执政党的国会议员，你如何定位议会中反对党的
代表？他们是你们的朋友，竞争者，合作者，还是什么？

昂丁林：竞争者。

南方周末：关于政治改革，关于与反对党的关系，巩发党内部有
分歧吗？比方说高层的中央委员们，你们观点一致吗？

昂丁林：没有分歧。我们紧紧团结在三大原则的根基上，没有什么不同观点。

南方周末：从上次议会补选中，你们学到了什么经验教训吗？

昂丁林：学到很多，真的学到很多。

南方周末：比方说？

昂丁林：比方说要赢得大选，我们要多宣传我们所做的工作，了解群众的需求。我们也要改变民众的思维，传播知识，经常和群众打交道。

南方周末：是不是还有进一步释放政治犯的问题？一些人批评称，缅甸依然存在大量政治犯。

昂丁林：我们以前有政治犯，但是现在已经都被释放了。所谓政治犯，他们也是犯了法才进去的。

南方周末：民盟方面告诉我们说，至少还有三百多名政治犯没有得到释放。

昂丁林：他们一直散播关于我们的谣言。这是美国人可耻的敌对策略。

南方周末：那关于下次大选，巩发党有什么具体的争取选票的计划吗？

昂丁林：我们会改革巩发党，改进村、镇和市等各级党组织。

南方周末：改革是指什么？寻找更好的党代表吗？

昂丁林：对，我们要寻找更多优秀的人才。此外我们还会给农村修路，建设供水系统，修建学校，推动医疗保险制度建设、提供更好的社会福利，还要发展针对农民的小额贷款。

南方周末：凭借这些，你觉得你们能赢得下届大选吗？

昂丁林：只要我们努力了就会赢。
“密松大坝必须继续修建”

南方周末：很多人都认为，现在缅甸想要在与中国、美国和欧洲关系中寻求平衡。巩发党的对外政策是否会有什么变化？

昂丁林：总的来说，我们外交政策是和平共处。我们与中国有着亲密友好的关系，中国长久以来帮了我们很多，每个人都知道这一点。在缅甸，到处都能看到中国的捐赠。在所有国家中，中国对缅甸的帮助最多，时间也久，所以我们才能坚持到现在。

南方周末：2011年，吴登盛总统宣布中止了密松大坝的建设，很多中国人非常关心这个问题。

昂丁林：这不是我们的国家决策，不是国会做的决定，这是一个人的决定。

南方周末：一个人，是指总统吗？

昂丁林：是的，这是他一个人的主意，不是国会决议。我们对此有反对意见。他试图隔断中缅之间的联系。

南方周末：你觉得大坝有可能继续修建吗？

昂丁林：必须继续。因为我们要为国家考虑，我们需要电力。缅甸电力短缺的问题很久了，这已经成为长期的政治问题。你可以想象，有些西方国家试图切断中缅两国的联系。

南方周末：你们对外国投资持什么态度？

昂丁林：我们制定了新的外国投资法。以后，所有国家都可以来投资，但要依照法律。中国人对缅甸很亲近。在联合国或者其他国际场合，中国都站在缅甸政府一边。中缅两国人民彼此理解。我们欢迎中国在缅甸投资。我们是朋友。

南方周末：但的确有NGO、媒体和普通缅甸人抱怨，不少中国公司掠夺资源，污染环境。你们会讨厌中国人吗？

昂丁林：不会的。我们对中国人很友好。当我们落难的时候，是中国人帮了我们。
"Some people want to establish a puppet regime in Myanmar"
- Visit to Myanmar "reform and modernization of the Oversight Committee" main Xiangdinglin

Source: Southern Weekly

: Southern Weekend reporter Chang Interrogation intern Zhou Jun Ki from the bottom: Myanmar Yang

Light Last updated :2012-07-06 12:14:38

Editor's Note: Myanmar's various political forces are working to unity and reconciliation, but on the other hand, the Game of the various political forces, secretly flowing confrontation has never disappeared.

Myanmar today, the ruling party "the Union Solidarity and Development Party (USDP, hereinafter referred to as Gong Development Party) is undoubtedly the most important leadership strength. Gong made the party can out of the history? In the "new" Congress, Gong and Development Party and the opposition party of Aung San Suu Kyi will be how to get along? With these questions, the Southern Weekend reporter Gong Party Central Executive Committee, Myanmar Congress to "reform and modernization of the supervisory committee Chairman of Yangon City Mayor Angding Lin (Aung Thein, Linn,).

Angding Lin was born army in 2003 to 2011, he was appointed mayor of Yangon City. Right now, he took off his military uniform, to resign from the mayor, became members of Congress. He also serves as the Gong Development Party Yangon chairman of the party committee leadership with more than 500,000 party members.

His point of view does not represent the official views of the Government of Myanmar. Remains unclear political situation in Myanmar, there is still a considerable part of power control in Ang Dinglin like the hands of the hardliners.
"I do not believe that Ban Ki-moon, do not believe that the United Nations

SW: Since 2011, Wu Dengsheng president sharply in Burma to the implementation of economic, social and political reform. Can you overall evaluation of this reform it?

Angding Lin: We want to establish a democratic country, will not turn the clock back. We want to build a peaceful, developed, democratic country for the next generation. In this country everyone loves democracy. We perform a seven-step road map to democracy.

SW: So far, do you think of success of the reform?
Angding Lin: success.

SW: What are the major difficulties faced by that reform?

Angding Lin: a big challenge to economic sanctions since the 1990s. It affects everyone, not just government, but everyone. Sanctions resolution is a Western state interference in our internal affairs. They want to interfere with us, want to establish a puppet government in Myanmar, which is we do not want.

SW: Recently, the economic sanctions in the loose, the United States and the European Union have expressed some friendly gestures ...

Angding Lin: We do not believe it. There are a group of people we want to seize political power, their goal is to establish a puppet regime in Burma.

SW: With regard to the international community and sanctions, UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon recently visited Myanmar and met the Wu Dengsheng President, all in moderating the relationship between Myanmar and the international community, is not it?

Angding Lin: think about who is in control of the United Nations? Ban Ki-moon who is in control? The United Nations headquarters in New York, think to know.

SW: I seem Wu Dengsheng president quite like Ban Ki-moon.

Angding Lin: Maybe, anyway, I do not like. I do not believe Ban Ki-moon, do not believe that the United Nations. They are the same, I just want to interfere in other countries' internal affairs.

SW: U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's recent visit to Myanmar, how do you think of this?

Angding Lin: This is our failure. She did not come to see us, not to our people not to Myanmar, just to "woman", that the person, you know. Precisely because of the "woman", Myanmar to face sanctions.
Efforts to amend the constitution will not succeed "

SW: The recent by-election, Aung San Suu Kyi led the NLD (National League for Democracy abbreviation) won by a landslide. Today, NLD has been in Congress with 43 members, became the first large opposition party. As the ruling party's Central Committee and members of Congress, how you intend to cooperate with them?

(Angding Lin smiled and side to side to make continuous action of collision with two fists, his mouth said, "yes ah, cooperation! Cooperation!" After he put on a serious expression.)

Angding Lin: Our policy is to the country, we do not have any selfish political parties of any country, serving the people we are willing to cooperate with them. After the election, they won 43 seats, only six percent of parliamentary seats, but we accounted for 76%, we have an absolute majority.

SW: Do you have the power ...

Angding Lin: at least for now. We adhere to the principle of doing everything for the country also

Gong Development Party's three major principles: to maintain the unity of the motherland, and safeguarding national unity, safeguard Burma sovereignty integrity.

SW: We see the NLD many segments opened in Yangon, a lot of excited people, they warmly support Aung San Suu Kyi and the NLD,. In this case, how do you evaluate?

Angding Lin: those people crazy. Well, she was very popular, but popular is because she is the daughter of General Aung San. General Aung San is our national hero.

SW: You talked about the reform is to achieve democracy in Myanmar. Have you ever thought that one day you may lose power to rule, reduced to an opposition party?

Angding Lin: in the general election, the majority party to win the formation of the government, but still need to govern in accordance with the constitution. Constitution all citizens through the (ruling) political parties and governments can change, but the constitution can not, because what people do not agree on a whim.


SW: But I know that the National League for Democracy are trying to constitutional amendment.

Angding Lin: Yes, they do not like the Constitution.

SW: Because it does not give the foreign spouse to stand for election, so that Aung San Suu Kyi's political future is a problem, right?

Angding Lin: Yes, the president and vice president of qualification is prescribed.

SW: Do you think they try to constitutional reform effort to succeed?

Ang Dinglin: NLD, the leader (referring to Aung San Suu Kyi) is the spouse of a foreigner, so they want a constitutional amendment. However, the preservation of our national character is our responsibility, we take this responsibility from generation to generation down. The Constitution, the foreign spouses of staff members shall not serve as the national leadership.

Southern Weekend: Are you saying they constitutional amendment will not be successful.

Angding Lin: the game is, no one likes them to the set. Myanmar was once a British colony, ruled for a hundred years, no one will want to return to the colony. This is the main reason, the second reason, we never allow any foreign military facilities in Myanmar. This is the sovereignty requirements.
"We learned many lessons."

SW: As the ruling party congressman, how to position the opposition in Parliament
Representative? They are your friends, competitors, collaborators, or what?

Angding Lin: competitors.

SW: political reform, on the relationship with the opposition, Gong made within the party
Differences between you? For example, the high-level central committee members, you agree?

Angding Lin: No differences. We firmly united on the foundation of the three major principles, no different point of view.

SW: from the last parliamentary by-election, you have learned any lessons learned?

Angding Lin: learn a lot, really learned a lot.

SW: For example?

Angding Lin: for example, to win the election, we have to publicize the work we do, understand the needs of the masses. We must change people's thinking, and dissemination of knowledge, often dealing with the masses.

SW: is not there to further the release of political prisoners? Criticized by some, Myanmar is still a large number of political prisoners.

Angding Lin: We have political prisoners, but now have been released. The so-called political prisoners, they are also guilty of the law to go.

Southern Weekend: ZANU-PF has told us that there are at least more than 300 political prisoners has not been released.

Angding Lin: They have been spreading rumors about us. Americans shameful hostile strategy.

SW: That the next general election, consolidate and Development Party have any specific plans to win votes?

Angding Lin: we will reform and consolidate the party to improve the village, town and city party organizations at all levels.

SW: The reform is what? Looking for a better party?

Angding Lin: Yes, we're looking for more talents. In addition, we will give the rural roads, water supply systems, build schools, to promote the building of the medical insurance system, providing better social welfare, but also the development of small loans for farmers.

SW: With these, you think you can win the next election?

Angding Lin: As long as our efforts will win.
Myitsone dam must continue to build "

Southern Weekend: Many people believe that Myanmar is to seek a balance in relations with China, the United States and Europe. Consolidate the party's foreign policy is what will change?

The Ang Dinglin: Overall, our foreign policy of peaceful coexistence. We have a close and friendly relations with China, China has long helped us a lot, everyone knows it. Can be seen everywhere in Myanmar, the Chinese donation. In all countries, with the help of China to Myanmar up to the time a long time, so we can adhere to the present.

SW: 2011, Wu Dengsheng President announced the suspension of the construction of the dam Myitsone, many Chinese people are very concerned about this issue.

Ang Dinglin: This is not our national policy-making, Congress decided that this is a decision.

SW: a president do?

Angding Lin: Yes, this is his idea of a person, not a congressional resolution. We have opposing views. He tried to cut off contact between China and Myanmar.

SW: Do you think the dam may be continuing to build it?

Angding Lin: You must continue. Because we want to consider, we need electricity. Myanmar's power shortage problems for a long time, it has become a long-term political issues. As you can imagine, some Western countries trying to cut the links of China and Myanmar.

SW: Do you what attitude to foreign investment?

Angding Lin: We developed a new foreign investment law. Later, since all countries can invest in, but in accordance with the law. Very close to the Chinese people of Myanmar. In the United Nations or other international forums, the Chinese are standing on the side of the Government of Myanmar. China and Myanmar between the two peoples understand each other. We welcome Chinese investment in Myanmar. We are friends.

SW: But there is indeed a NGO, media and ordinary Myanmar people complain that many Chinese companies are plundering of resources, pollution of the environment. You will hate the Chinese?
 
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